On the train back to Weymouth reflecting on the day
Sitting on the South Western Railway service from London Waterloo to Weymouth reflecting on a very hot day in London. The day had started fairly well with a breakfast meeting at 10am with two friends on Kensington High Street. Originally planned to meet in Gails but as I approached Kensington High Street station on the district line to Wimbledon train, I received a text message: "Change of plans, can we meet at Megan’s. We could sit outside, its too hot in here”, which was both a good idea and a gentle reminder that I was the one running late. I hurried down Kensington High Street looking for “Megan” and his/her café.
A couple of hours and one very nice poached eggs on toast with pot of Earl Grey tea later, I was heading back towards Maida Vale. Changing at Edgware Road I remembered that Westminster Magistrates’ Court was near by, and despite living close by for several years, I had only once visited the Court and that was only to look briefly at the hearing lists.
According to my records monitoring the publication of Common Platform hearing lists on the Courtserve service, of the 146 Magistrates’ Courts in England and Wales, Westminster was one of the top performers in terms of publishing their CP lists in a timely and reliable fashion. But what about the accuracy of the lists on the Courtserve system? Do they match the lists published outside the individual Courts? And are those lists posted outside each Court themselves accurate?
I downloaded the two entries for today’s date at Westminster Magistrates’ Court from Courtserve and stored the resulting two files on my laptop, the Libra list and the Common Platform list.
Visit to Westminster Magistrates’ Court
Arriving at the security archway just inside Westminster Magistrates’ Court at 12:25 pm., there was the usual search. I have learnt to empty my trouser and coat pockets in to the pockets and compartments in my backpack and to take out my laptop so staff can check it [for something]!? They open the lid of the laptop and then close it again. Not sure what that achieves but hey! What’s the harm?
The x-ray scanner identifies that I have two mobile phones, another larger phone shaped object (which is a phone powerpack), a round object and two bunches of keys. Staff want to examine all of these items and I search through the backpack to find and display them. The phone powerpack (I actually have two in the bag) is discovered to have a small torch light at the end and is confiscated to be held in safe custody until I leave the Court. A receipt is issued.
There is still a round object they want to identify which turns out to be a nurses watch from when I was working in a kitchen where wristwatches are banned, so I had bought and pinned on to my workwear a nurses watch in a round plastic holder, so that I knew what the time was. Satisfied that this was just a watch, the security staff waived me in to the Court building.
The hearing lists on the ground floor
First destination was the large hearing board on the wall on the ground floor with a section for each of the 10 Courts. Not every Court was in use, but many were. I recorded some details from each Court list including each time the number of cases. Where I spotted something that piqued my interest I copied down more details. Now, I know that photography in Court buildings is forbidden, but given that these lists are often the only record of what is happening and contained (today) 84 names of defendant; many names of JPs sitting (5 listed for Court 7 alone); two cases with reporting / publication restrictions in place (see below); a couple of cases with multiple defendants – one had 7 defendants; another 3 defendants. My point is that this is a huge amount of information. It would really, really help someone like me who has a poor short-term memory to be able to take a quick snap of the lists on my mobile phone to refer to later on.
Tour of the building starting from the top floor
At 12:35 I took the lift up to the top, 3rd floor and walked along the corridor looking at the Court lists posted outside each Court. Then walked down the stairs to the 2nd floor. Court 6 was interesting – the list was in a different format to the others and was marked – Ushers list! I would be returning to Court 6 later in the afternoon.
Down the stairs again to the 1st floor where I had been told there was an enquiry desk. I wanted to ask, for the two cases that I had noted that there was a Press/publication restriction noted against the entry on the listing (which when I checked later was not shown on the online listing), could I have a copy of the restriction or to be told where in the Courthouse I could go and read the notice.
“Historic” notices
Down on the ground floor there was a board on one wall with the letters of the alphabet arranged A – D, E – H, I – K, etc. And pinned under each letter range were a number of notices with Contempt of Court Act warnings for a particular case, often with the names anonymised. This looked like it could be the Press/publication restriction notice area. But the notices were from 2021 and 2022 and some were from earlier years. There did not appear to be any current notices posted on the board.
Discussion with listings manager
I could not have asked a better person, as the person I was dealing with was a very nice lady called Debbie Patterson, the listings manager for the Court. We discussed Westminsters’ excellent record on publication of CP lists and Debbie told me that it was Bromley who collated the lists for the Court. I asked where I could find the notices regarding the Press/publication restrictions. The board on the ground floor was suggested but I reported the age of the items posted there. Our discussion ended with Debbie giving me the email address for the South West London admin team (which I actually already had from when I had chased Bromley for some missing CP lists) and agreeing that perhaps there was a barrier to the public being able to observe and report upon cases, as the Press/publication restrictions might be available to the Press but were not readily available to the public. Debbie suggested I emailed the SW London Admin team, which I have now done. The answer will be interesting!
Conversation overheard
Whilst I had been discussing with Debbie the delights of listing and reporting restrictions, near by at another enquiry window a barrister was discussing an issue regarding his client. He had just succeeded in getting the Magistrates to agree to a fine rather than a custodial sentence for his client (who was currently held in the cells) who had pleaded guilty. He was enquiring as to how his client could pay his fine and be released. Because he was a foreign national intending to leave the country shortly, the Magistrates had ordered that he pay the fine before being released. Ordinarily a defendant who has been fined will be released by the Court and told to expect to be contacted by the fines team with details of how to pay.
This barrister was in a hurry as he was late for another matter and needed to leave the Court very soon. But he was concerned that his client would need assistance and possibly an interpreter as he spoke Arabic. Was there anything that the counter staff could do to assist? The counter staff he was dealing with did not really know what to advise.
Catch 22
The problem was this: Westminster Magistrates Court does not have any facility for a defendant to pay a fine on the day it is imposed! Other than for the defendant to go to a nearby bank, draw out the money in cash and plonk it on the enquiry counter to be counted. There IS a facility to call an automated payment line, quoting your case reference and making a payment by debit or credit card. BUT this facility is only available once the details of the fine have been passed over to the payment system by the Court, and it seems that this happens overnight.
There was also some confusion over whether the defendant had been ordered to pay a fine (which is what his barrister was trying to arrange) or to make a bail deposit (which is what the enquiry staff thought the Magistrates had ordered). The latter required the defendant to complete a form, following which another form – the bail deposit form - is created and then payment could be made.
But another “gotcha!” – the defendant was in the cells, without any of his personal possessions and without his glasses or his mobile phone. And the Court staff were insisting that he would need to go to a bank and withdraw the cash to pay his fine. But he could not be released from custody until he had paid his fine.
Had I known then what I know now …
I was not aware of all this when I (helpfully, I thought) stepped forward and introduced myself and offered to be the person to whom his client could speak when he was released from custody. The offer was gratefully received and we exchanged contact details and I made a note of his client’s name (which I could not find on the online hearing lists!!!!!) and the amount of the total fine payable - £1285.
And off went the barrister to his next case, thanking me as he left.
The enquiry counter staff wanted to get off for their lunch, but before they left I managed to get from them some details of what would happen next. They were going to check about the bail deposit / fine issue and let me know. I asked for a copy of a blank bail deposit form to see what information it required. And I tried calling the automated payment line. This needed a division number and an account number. Now, I thought, what is that account number going to be?
Bail deposit form
I went back up to the 2nd floor and found somewhere to sit and study the bail deposit form. This need the case reference number to be entered, but how was I going to find that when the published lists did not include the name of the defendant. Well, you remember that Ushers list outside Court 6? Towards the bottom of that list I found the client’s name – and with it – the case reference number (not really a number – mostly numbers and some letters).
So now I had some more information. His barrister insisted that it was a fine. He had pled guilty and the Magistrates had fined him £500 plus prosecution costs and victim surcharge making £1285 in all. If he could pay the £1285 and he said he had this in his bank account, then he could be released and would be free to go.
And this is where the madness began …
After wandering around the various floors for about half an hour I finally returned to the 1st floor and the Enquiry counter which had a sign saying “Back at 2pm”. I waited nearby and watched a number of people walk up, look at the sign and go away again. A couple of people waited with me.
At 14:05pm a lady I had not seen before came and tried to open the blinds which had been put down at the counter for lunch, but could not get the blind to work. So she half pulled one of the blinds to one side and started to service the various requests. When my turn came I explained that I had been speaking before lunch to another lady who was going to check about the fine / bail deposit question and get back to me. The lady disappeared in to the room behind the counter window and returned shortly to tell me that the case was going to be brought back again to Court 6 at 14:20. I thanked her and went up to wait outside Court 6.
And so to Court 6 (and that Ushers list)
There I found a number of people gathering outside the Court. One by one we each tried the Court door and found it locked. I started to chat to the man next to me – and commented that it was “organised chaos”. He smiled ruefully and agreed - yes, it never seems to change. Someone he knew came up to join us waiting at the door, and they chatted together, obviously knowing each other well. The new person turned out to be the prosecutor for some of the cases.
At 14:20 the doors of the Court were unlocked and we all trouped in to the Court. I found a seat at the rear row. The “public” gallery was actually a glass enclosed area behind us and there were some members of the public in there, but someone gestured to me to sit next to them. At some point I was able to speak with the legal advisor about the issue of how the defendant was going to make a payment of the fine. This was when I found out that, in reality, the Court did not have any way (that they had disclosed so far) that they could suggest. It seemed to be that the course of action was to let the defendant be taken to prison overnight and then he could use the telephone automated payment system tomorrow to make the fine payment. There was a general air of – this is all we can do. There is nothing more we can do.
How little people know of how prisons operate
As a former Independent Monitoring Board member at one of the London prisons, this expectation that the prison staff could deal tomorrow with the defendant’s need to pay his court fine (if that is what he needed to do) revealed a staggering lack of knowledge of how prisons operate, particularly in the current challenging times.
His personal belongings would not be given to him. They would go in to storage, to be given to him on his release. Even to make a telephone call would be a challenge. On arrival at prison, he would, if he was lucky, be allowed to make just ONE 2 and 3 minute telephone call to let someone know where he was being held. Period. Then he would go to the first night centre and start his induction in to prison life. If he wanted to make another telephone call he would have to nominate the number and provide details of who the telephone number belonged to. This would go to security who would vet the number. Now this department are unlikely to be working at the weekend, so that process would start on Monday and would likely take 2 -3 days. So, if he was lucky, he might get to make a phone call on the phone in the prison and providing he had some credit on his prison phone account, by Thursday next. If he had no credit he would have to ask to be allowed to make a call and there would be no guarantee that this would happen particularly quickly.
Speed of action and decision making is not something that our prisons are renowned for! And as far as calling his bank to transfer a large(ish) sum of money – that might need approval at a higher level than wing staff – even if it was to pay a court fine.
So the attitude – let him get taken to prison – and they can deal with it, was not really something I wanted to visit upon this defendant. More effort was needed.
The bench return and get down to work
And then the Magistrates came back in and the next case was called on at 14:34 and we all sat down to listen to the proceedings. Ten minutes later I get to speak again with the legal advisor.
I protested. And kept calmy and quietly protesting to the staff. You have someone who is in custody but who the Magistrates have agreed can be released when he has paid a fine. He has the means to pay. But you are keeping him in custody because the Court does not have a credit card machine to accept his fine payment? Really? You are going to keep someone in custody overnight because you cannot accept a fine payment today?
Finally the legal advisor approached me and said, “he can make a bank transfer” and provided me with a sort code and account number. What reference should be on the payment? The case reference. If he can make the payment and provide a receipt for the payment, then he can be released.
Off to the cells in the basement on a wild goose chase
Right, said I, I will go and speak with him and explain this. And I was provided with the phone number of the Cell Manager, Naomi. A quick call to Naomi who was very helpful. She was quite keen for the defendant to pay his fine and be released.
It is now 14:44 and I spent the next 10 minutes on a wild goose chase. First point of call was the cells in the basement. Press the buzzer, knock on the door and wait. Door opens and a visitor is let out and I am beckoned in. At a desk sits an offer from Serco. Can I have your ID please? I offer my passport. No, your professional ID. I am not a solicitor. I am a law student assisting the barrister who represented one of the defendants.
Sorry – you need a professional ID or someone to vouch for you, or you need a temporary pass. OK, where do I get that from? Enquiry counter on 1st floor. So back up to the Enquiry Counter. Have been told by the cell staff that I need a temporary pass. Not here, you need to go to security on the ground floor. OK -and so down to security.
Hello again (this to the security guard who had taken my powerpack (with torch) in case I used it as a weapon!). How do I get a temporary pass? Do you have professional ID? No, I am not a solicitor, I am a law student. Oh well, you won’t get one then. Can I ask them? No point, they will not agree, Well can I try? OK, press the bell on that door there.
Presses bell. Door opens a little. Yes? Can I get a temporary pass to visit a defendant in the cells? I do not have professional ID, I am a law student assisting a barrister to help his client pay a fine so he can be released. Sorry, no. I explained again the situation – defendant is in cells. Magistrates have said he can be released if he pays fine. In the cells there is no mobile signal and no Wifi signal so he cannot use his mobile to make the payment. I have the bank details of where to make the payment and then he can be released. I would like to speak to him to explain this and try to find a solution.
Hold on I will ask my manager. Minute or two wait, Then – sorry no. My manager says no. I thought he would.
Can anybody suggest ANY solutions to this conundrum?
So what are the options then? Have you got any suggestions about how we can sort this out? There was a lot of shaking of heads and sighing. There must be something that can be done, I prompted. Anyone?
Then a voice spoke up: Only way is to get him back in to Court with his personal belongings and he can phone from the dock. Brilliant suggestion! So I would have to ask the Magistrates to do that? Yes.
I thanked the person and started back up the stairs to Court 6.
Back again in Court 6
Back in to Court 6 again at 14:54.
There is another case going on and I take some notes to pass the time. The Magistrates decide to remand this defendant in custody to appear at Isleworth Crown Court on 16 August. He is told to go down to the cells with the Officer.
So at 14:55 the legal advisor addresses the Magistrates about the matter before lunch and the fine. It is agreed that he will be brought up from the cells. Another member of staff reminds the legal advisor that he will have to be responsible for the mobile phone.
At 14:58 the next case is called on and the Magistrates get to work hearing the case. I am busy making notes about the case that is being heard. But at 15:05 I notice that there is no mobile signal on my phone where I am sitting in Court 6. How, I thought, is the defendant going to make a call with no mobile signal?
At 15:23 the case being heard has reached the stage where the Magistrates are going to retire to consider their verdict. All stand. We all stand and the Magistrates leave the Court. I head outside to find out if I can locate a mobile signal on the 2nd floor where I am. How on earth is the defendant going to contact his bank to arrange a payment of his fine if there is no mobile signal when he arrives in the dock.
Stand over in that corner by the window, sir!
There is a security guard on the concourse on the 2nd floor and I ask him if there is a mobile signal anywhere in the Court area. He indicates that if I go and stand by the window by the main stairwell I should get a signal there. I go over to where he indicates and power off my mobile phone and then back on again, and it picks up a signal. Now somewhere in my notes I had written down how to get access to the GovWifi that is advertised as available in the Court building. You have to text “Go” to 07537 417 417. I try a text but it fails to send. I try again and again it fails. What!? I find that the WiFi on the phone has connected or tried to, so I disable it and try again. This time the Go goes!
I wait. I send another Go! Still nothing. Then I get a text message back and in the middle of lots of instructions are a username and password for GovWifi. Will it work?
Go! GovWifi go!
I connect my phone Wifi to GovWifi and get a prompt for username and password. I enter the 6 character username and the 3 word (with the first letter of each word capitalised) password. Hey presto! Connected to GovWifi! Now I have a way to get the defendant to be able to contact his bank when he arrives in the dock. I hasten inside the Courtroom to check that I still have GovWifi access in Court 6. Yes!
Thinking belt and braces I write down the Hotspot password from my Iphone so that if the defendant is struggling to connect to GovWifi I can suggest that he tries to connect to the Wifi Hotspot from my phone. But the password is 14 characters long so I decide to change it to something short and simple and to change it back again later. I setup a simple and easy to enter password on the Wifi Hotspot. Now we are ready to try and get the payment made.
The Magistrates sentence the last defendant to 12 weeks custody.
At 15:34 the Magistrates return but the prosecutor is nowhere to be seen and the Court waits for him. Then the chair of the Magistrates addresses the current defendant. It is not good news for him. He ends up with a 12-week prison sentence of which he will serve 6 weeks in prison before being released on licence for the remaining 6 weeks.
The defendant does not quite understand even though he has an interpreter. The chair of the Magistrates makes it absolutely clear. She speaks directly to the defendant – “ from today you are going to prison”. And at 15:41 this defendant is taken down from the dock to the cells for transfer to prison.
I see for the first time the defendant that I am trying to help
Then the defendant that I am trying to help with his fine payment arrives from the cells in the dock accompanied by a young female Serco officer. She has his bag of personal belongings and the legal advisor indicates to her to give the mobile phone to the defendant. I am stood outside the dock and there are large Perspex screens with vertical gaps between them separating the defendant and the officer from me. I have the bank sort code and account number and the reference – which is his case reference – written on a page in my notebook and I hold this up for him to read through the perspex. I can see him trying to enter the details on his phone but he is an Arabic speaking person so the words are all in Cyrilc script (going right to left) so I cannot understand what is on the phone. The app that he is using, which is probably a banking app, keeps resetting. I realise that he is trying to use a mobile signal, which is pretty much non-existent in that dock area.
Get him on to GovWifi
I tell him about the GovWifi and he tries to connect to this. I have to read the username and password out to him through the gaps in the screen around the dock. And he enters the phrases. Has it connected? Yes, it looks like it has. I decide that it would be easier if I write out the payment details on a blank page torn out of my notebook that I can pass through the slats to the defendant. I quickly copy sort code, account number and reference and hand the page to him. Maybe if time runs out and he is taken down again he might be able to make the payment from the cells?
I ruefully recall the Court Fines notice and “ways to pay” (from the comfort of your cell)
(That last bit in brackets was me being facetious)
The defendant now starts to enter the sort code and account number to create a new payee on his bank account. This he completes but he then advises me that it can take up to 20 minutes for his bank, which is overseas, confirms the details and he can then make a payment.
Behind me the Magistrates are beginning to get impatient. How much longer is this going to take? We need to get on with other cases. I turn to address their worships and explain that the defendant has created a new payee on his account and is waiting for the bank to confirm it before he can make the payment of the fine. Well, how much longer. He says it can take up to 20 minutes, madam, I say to the chair of the bench. We cannot wait that long!
There is then some frantic discussion with the defendant. Is there any other way that he could make the payment more quickly? Someone asks if he knows someone with a UK bank account that could make the payment? I think this might have come from the young female Serco officer. He nods, yes – my brother. And he calls his brother. A long conversation in Arabic ensues.
Again behind me the bench are getting impatient. I am at a loss to know what to do. This appears to be his last chance to avoid a night in jail. I then realise that the legal advisor has said that he needs to be emailed a copy of the confirmation of payment from the bank to the account. I go over to the legal advisor and show him the email address that he gave me earlier and check that what I have written down is correct. Yes, he says. So I go back to the window slats and ask the defendant for the paper back and add on the email address that the defendants brother needs to email the confirmation of payment to. I hand this back and assume that the defendant passes on the details to his brother. I cannot be sure because he is speaking quickly in Arabic and I have only a few words of that language.
Magistrates’ patience is exhausted
The magistrates’ patience is now exhausted and the defendant is instructed to hand the phone back to the officer. He ends the call with his brother and hands the phone and his glasses to the Serco officer. He then turns to thank me for the help and I wish him, “good luck” as the officer takes him back down to the cells.
It is now 16:09 and I pick up my things, turn to the magistrates and thank them and then walk to the door of the Court, turn, bow my head to the bench and leave Court 6. As I am leaving I hear the chair of the bench asking, “who was that? We haven’t seen him before.”
Quite an afternoon experience at Westminster Magistrates Court.
Things for me to follow up on
Reading through my notes later on the train I realise that I have a couple of things to follow up on. Apart from the Press / publicity restrictions issue I have noticed that a couple of posters on the Enquiry window on 1st floor have out of date information. The first is the email address for the LMAC (forget what that stands for). It is an old hmcts.gsi.gov.uk email which was phased out, what? Five years or more ago. There was a phone number on the poster which I call. Can I check your email address, please? I explain that there is a poster on the Enquiry window at Westminster Magistrates Court and I suspect that the email address is not the current one. Yes, they confirm. That is an old email address that no longer works and they give me the new justice,gov,uk email. I just need to work out how to get this to the relevant person (who do you think might be responsible for ensuring that information on posters in the Court building are correct and up to date? Well, who could I notify to try and get them corrected then?
The other possible error is on the posters advertising Civil Legal Advice or Community Legal Advice. One poster advertises an 0845 number, the other advertises the same number but this one begins 0345. The difference is that an 0845 number is a chargeable number that is often not included in calling plans, whereas an 0345 number IS included in the calling plans – and is therefore effectively free for a lot of people.
When I have more time I need to call the two numbers (they are identical expect for the 0845 / 0345 difference) to check that they land at the same organisation. If this checks out then the 0845 posters need to be updated to the 0345 number.
Oh, and there is the question as to why the published hearing list did not include the name of the defendant on the list but he appears on the “Usher” list for Court 6.
Perhaps that nice Debbie Patterson could help look in to that question – if I could find an email address that might reach her!?
So my “pop-in” to check the hearing lists at Westminster Magistrates Court turned in to a rather more interesting experience lasting almost 4 hours. I have little way of knowing whether the defendant DID manage to get his brother to make the payment and send the confirmation to the correct email address. All I know is that, as I left at 16:09, he was being escorted back to the cells. Did he get released from the Court? Or did he get taken back to spend a night in a prison, presumably somewhere in London.
Did I help someone to pay their fine and get out of custody or was it all a waste of time? Maybe I will never know. But what an experience.
Why does Westminster Magistrates Court not have a way for someone to pay a fine immediately?
And the big question – why doesn’t a busy Court like Westminster Magistrates have some way to take an urgent bank card payment from a defendant so they can be released rather than incurring the expense of transporting them to prison, detaining them overnight (or likely much longer!) and then - what? If he ended up in prison, do they really think that he will be able to make the payment whilst he is in prison? If they do, they do not understand what the regime is like in prison. I would think that the prison would prioritise arranging for him to have access to his phone to make payment of the fine as bout as much as the staff at the Court did. In other words, I would be surprised if it did not take several days to get the permissions necessary, if indeed he ever get those permissions. It could be several days before he could get his brother’s number on his calling list and make that call to his brother to ask his brother to pay the fine.
But why should anybody be detained in custody, whether in Court or in prison, because the Court is unable to accept payment of fines on the day they impose them and them can only accept cash. The technology to accept card payment is so cheap and easy to obtain these days, I cannot see any excuse for not having at least one card payment machine available for use in cases such as these. So I suppose that is another loose end – perhaps I should submit a formal complaint to HMCTS to see if it possible to get that changed.
Final thoughts
Driving across to my brother’s house in Taunton I suddenly had an idea. The concern of the Court was that this was a foreign national who was planning to leave the country the following day. The concern was that the fine would not be paid before he left and then collecting the fine from someone overseas would not be an easy matter.
Well – obvious solution. Confiscate his passport (which was in his personal possessions held by the custody officer). And only release the passport back to him once the fine had been paid. That way he could be released immediately with a copy of the fine order in his hand. He could use him mobile phone out in the street; make the payment; and obtain a copy of the payment receipt on his phone. And return with that evidence to show to the Court and be given his passport.
How I wish I had thought of that at the time. Or that one of the many professionals in the Court in Westminster had come up with the idea and proposed it to the Magistrates. Why did it take a wandering public observer (OK, admittedly someone with a Dip HE in law) to sort this out?